Preparing for a crowdfunding campaign, working with factories in China, and the importance of perseverance

Eric:
I'm excited to have you here. Let me give the audience a little background about you. First, you have one of the coolest products I've ever seen. It's a foldable origami bottle. It's like this beautiful water bottle that folds and it can fit into purses and it doesn't take up a lot of space. And for those listening, you can see just what I'm talking about. Just in a couple of seconds, when you visit dfaux.com And this can be everything from shampoo bottles to shipping containers. It is absolutely amazing. So before we get into default, uh, Redina, I've got a question for you. What is something interesting about you that most people do not know? They're not going to see this on your LinkedIn profile.

Radina:
Yeah, don't share a lot of personal things as some people on LinkedIn like personal life every day, journaling, etc. But yeah, if you go on my Instagram, maybe you would see that I'm very much into outdoor sports. So this is my other life after or in parallel, let's say to the to the default or default depends on how you pronounce it. So I do rock climbing. mountain biking and snowboarding skiing.

Eric:
Oh my God, that's pretty adventurous. Have you had any near death experiences, or Dina?

Radina:
Yeah, especially with mountain biking, I've been reflecting after such experiences or moments. I mean, they were not near death, etc. But if you imagine like you're in a situation like very downhill rocky terrain, for instance, and if you see yourself from the outside, you'll be like, no way that I'm doing this, but you're very present into the moment and in the situation and the terrain that you're riding. And it's really worth it. I mean, of course you should be careful, et cetera, but then with rock climbing, maybe some moments as well. But I would say that mountain biking is more injury prone sports than climbing, although some people are more impressed with rock climbing, I don't know.

Eric:
I totally understand and can relate. I did the Colorado trail or I attempted to do the Colorado trail a few years ago with some friends and we started on the mountain. Like you said, going downhill rocky terrain. I flew off my bike, went unconscious. I woke up, I had a cracked rib and my friend who was also riding with us, he broke his collarbone. You could literally see his collarbone like

Radina:
Yeah.

Eric:
coming out of his shirt. And we had to track like 10 miles because we couldn't ride anymore. And there was, uh, there was, uh, there was a storm that came in and the temperature

Radina:
So.

Eric:
dropped and it was, it wasn't near death, but

Radina:
Sorry.

Eric:
at the same time, it wasn't a pleasurable experience. I can laugh about it now. Right. But at the time I wasn't laughing. Yeah.

Radina:
Yeah, no, this sounds like very serious and yeah, like definitely I haven't been in such a situation to be honest, like I've had falls and I've been lost or et cetera, but not when you're injured and in the middle of nowhere without access to mobile or any rescue teams. It's yeah, then it gets real shit.

Eric:
Yeah, yeah. Well, the key is to have somebody with a good sense of humor that you can go through this journey and this experience with. And I was pretty lucky in that sense.

Radina:
Yeah,

Eric:
Another

Radina:
I think the

Eric:
question for you.

Radina:
mental state is very important in these situations, in this sport in general.

Eric:
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. What was the first entrepreneurial thing you did as a kid or a young adult? Radina.

Radina:
Good question. Like if I think back in my childhood, I don't know, I guess I've been like any typical kid like doing some paintings or some crafts and then trying to sell them on the streets. So yeah, nothing like a venture really. And yeah, maybe. Yeah, okay. My parents are entrepreneurs. So I've been like, like a baby going to warehouses and to some shops, trading centers, etc. So like indirectly I've been involved. And after that, after graduation, before DieFault, I had another startup that I was part of the team and eventually I was doing DieFault and WolfStack is called the other project in parallel, but at some point I decided to focus entirely on DieFault.

Eric:
Okay, and before we get into diphode, what was the best advice that your mom or dad ever gave you? radina

Radina:
I don't know really. Maybe the best advice is that they've let me find my own path. So they've never been, yeah, like trying to guide me on to stop me on something, whatever I wanted to pursue. I've had the freedom. Yeah.

Eric:
I like that. I like that as a parent, I'm going to strive to do the same for my kids and not try to steer them in the direction I want them to go. My wife keeps telling my son, he's going to be a doctor. Uh, I don't see it though. Okay. Now I, uh, I saw that you worked for Saatchi and Saatchi as a digital copywriter and you had a few other jobs, but when did you have that light bulb moment about creating, uh, reusable packaging?

Radina:
Oh, it was not a light bulb really. It was a process. So we are initially after graduating in marketing, I worked for nearly three, four years in such and such as digital project manager, basically, I was doing everything in the, in the first days of paid Facebook ads, and there were no videos back then. So it was in 2013 14 when I was there, was there and at some point I, I was not feeling that this is the industry and advertising is the career path and the personal development that I see for myself. And at 25 years old, I was having this identity crisis of what should I do with my life? Where do I want to devote and be of value and find meaning in what I'm doing? So this is when I decided to do a master degree in entrepreneurship and innovation. which eventually led me to Die Fold and I met with Peter, my co-founder, who basically is the inventor of the foldable designs and the patents that we have and one of these foldable designs as a representation is the Origami Bottles first product. And it was in 2018 when we joined forces with him and we started exploring at these foldable designs and what applications they can have. in the world and what problems they're solving and this is when we found out that packaging is experiencing and we will experience even more in the future this transition towards reuse and we see a big potential there into developing like a new category of more practical foldable refillable containers and yeah this is delightful but it was not like waking up one day and deciding that this is what you're gonna do. I've never been in packaging, neither he. So yeah, it was a process and it's still a process because we are not yet developing refillable packaging containers. But this is the longer goal that we are aiming for and it will take time.

Eric:
Yeah.

Radina:
Yeah, it's

Eric:
Well,

Radina:
adjourned.

Eric:
I'd love to hear more about the process of you guys getting this to market, like what, what did you initially focus on? Was it selling directly from the website, uh, the origami bottle, or was it another approach?

Radina:
Okay, so initially, as I said, we started exploring these different applications of our foldable designs. And in the end of 2019, we decided that packaging will be a second phase of our development, because we saw that big companies, they're very slow in decision making, they want a proof of concept and already ready to implement solutions, like coming up with a whole portfolio of foldable jars, bottles, cups, whatever we do like with unique prices, which is not the case that you can start with a hardware business. And it was then when we decided that we'll start with lifestyle products. And basically the origami bottle is not a packaging. So because sometimes people get confused, what are you doing? Is it packaging? But it's a consumer product, etc. So the origami bottle is a consumer product. It's a lifestyle. reusable water bottle and we decided to launch first this product and subsequent products and little by little get into the packaging industry to be better prepared in terms of production know-how materials unit cost etc so in 2020 we launched a Kickstarter campaign where we cop on that the production of the bottle and it was last summer in 2022 when we officially launched to market and we closed the crowdfunding chapter shipping 6,500 bottles to people from all around the world. And over this last year, we've been focused on growing the sales and distribution channels for the origami bottle, which are both B2B and B2C. So it's a mix between working with retailers, also selling on Amazon on our own website. and of course some channels have more priority etc.

Eric:
Okay, I would love to hear more about the bottle specifically. What is the average lifespan? What is it made of? Can you put hot drinks in there?

Radina:
So yeah, this is the first foldable bottle in the world that is made of a plant-based material. So 43% of the raw material that the bottle is made of comes from sustainably sourced rapeseed. It's a very durable thermoplastic elastomer. It's a type of plastic, but it's very high-end, it's food safe. like we've tested not only the raw material but the end product in laboratories. So we have the FDA certificate for the USA and also the food safety certificate for Europe, so it's completely food safe. It has the necessary mechanical properties so that the bottle is, as you see, like I don't know who will be listening and who will be watching the video. but basically you can very easily fold it in three steps by pressing on the horizontal lines and it becomes that compact and you can pocket it and at the same time when you unfold it, even when it's empty, it's very rigid and sturdy so it behaves like a normal bottle, it's very solid whereas the other brands and we also have unfortunately copycats of our product they're all made of softer materials, in most cases silicone. And silicone is a very soft material which would not have such function with our design. That's why we didn't go for it. It's also not sustainable material because it cannot be recycled. So for us it's very important that in the end of the lifespan of the product that it can be recycled. That's why easily we can separate the metal parts. isolation gaskets and the main body so they can be each one separately recycled. And we want to guarantee four years of intensive daily usage. We're still gathering feedback and it's been one year since the product has been massively out in the world. We already have some ideas about improvements but yeah basically more or less this is about the functionality of the products. It can be cleaned in a dishwasher, also with a bottle brush. We recommend bottle brush cleaning because it's not that aggressive.

Eric:
Okay, and who are your typical customers? You mentioned this is a lifestyle product, so are they mostly athletes or who are they?

Radina:
I would say they're like normal people like us that are active in their everyday life. So I mean, which means that they're commuting, they're doing sports. It's not strictly like a climbing or mountain biking type of product. But it's I would say that it fits in different lifestyles and especially for travelers, backpackers and commuters. Yeah.

Eric:
Okay, and I'm curious to know what big hurdles have you and your co-founder faced in the past three years in trying to get this to market?

Radina:
Oh, a lot of hurdles. It's constantly new challenges coming up. So initially, after we decided to focus on launching this first product, we needed initial funds in order to do the Kickstarter campaign and in order to invest in a prototype mode so that we can test our 3D printed prototype. in mass production settings and to see really this material whether it would work for injection molding because until you If you don't test it, you will not know really so it was getting this first funding which came from friends and family Then the Kickstarter I would say we did a really good job as a first time launching a crowdfunding campaign But the biggest hurdle after that was really moving from reproduction sample to a mass production. So it was a series of challenges in working with factories back and forth in a COVID times that was really, we didn't know whether we're gonna succeed or no. And the only thing is that we were not giving up and always pushing and finding solutions to everything. So. Yeah, going to mass production was, I guess, one of the biggest challenges. And also we did angels funding around after Kickstarter because we had this one year and a half of a delay to start production. So at some point we were burning money but not getting money from sales because we didn't have the product. So we did angels funding, which was also not easy because you You promised that next month it should be ready in mass production, but there is always something happening. So, yeah, I would say funding and the production. Now we are also facing like different distribution and sales challenges. We don't have like big budgets or like very tiny budgets, I would say, for marketing. And we are a small team of three. So, yeah, like every stage has its challenges.

Eric:
For other founders out there that are trying to bootstrap and are considering a crowdfunding campaign, what were some of the lessons that you learned and what advice would you give for somebody thinking about a crowdfunding campaign on Kickstarter?

Radina:
First, you should be sure that crowdfunding, especially the platform, is the right fit for your creation and your product. So first is asking yourself, is it really suitable for my business or for my product, my idea, whatever. And then the second advice is that crowdfunding requires a lot of preparation. because I've advised a lot of creators after our success, you know, you'll get a lot of free jobs etc and people think, generally think that you just prepare a project, you launch it there and suddenly everybody is supporting you. No, it's like a lot of preparation in advance so you need two to three months to really prepare the campaign, to build your audience, to engage people so that they know that on this day on... in this hour you're launching and their support is super important for you. So it's really, yeah as a person coming from advertising it's what big agencies do but you're with two people or just a few people team so you have to make a really well prepared integrated marketing campaign so that such an instrument can work for you and you should also budget it very importantly because As it was in our case, it was super important because if we were not getting the funds that we were needed back then, we would not be able to continue after that. So, you have to do your homework and to develop a really well-made and planned campaign.

Eric:
Yeah, it sounds like there's a lot of strategy involved, the same kind

Radina:
Yes.

Eric:
of effort that you would put into launching a successful product hunt campaign. Did you guys achieve your goal on Kickstarter? What was the goal, Radina?

Radina:
The public goal I think it was $20,000 which we achieved in four hours time. So there is this tendency for campaigns on Kickstarter that you set a lower than your real goal target in order to achieve it in a short time in order to step on your success after the first day of this campaign so that you can bring even more people. So it's also a tactic. or such a campaign and in the end of, of these 30 days campaign that we had on Kickstarter, we've had $137,000 collected.

Eric:
That's remarkable. And this is from people from all over the world, huh?

Radina:
Yes. We had people from 70 plus countries. Yeah.

Eric:
All

Radina:
And

Eric:
right.

Radina:
when you think like 3,300 people, like how many people can fit in a I don't know, in a stadium or things like this, all these people, like, putting their money into your creation, it's pretty impressive when you think about the scale. I mean, of course, they're bigger successes than ours, but this is our success, so it's also pretty impressive for ourselves. We didn't know.

Eric:
Yeah.

Radina:
You know, we did the best that we can do, but in the end of the day, it's like a gamble, but like very well. tough and prepared gamble that is also a very unique experience in terms of emotions

Eric:
Hehehe

Radina:
that go through this campaign. I remember.

Eric:
Yeah, I was poking around your website and I saw a page for creators. And so I'm curious to know, is this one of your core strategies in terms of marketing by working with creators and influencers like on tick talk and Instagram?

Radina:
This is one of the areas that we want to develop better in the future. It's not a focus right now. I mean, it's of course something that we are open for, but currently we don't have the resources to really develop it well so that it's working for us. But we believe that the other product has a lot of potential to be shared among people and it's very playful and creative. So... I see this as a future vertical that we can definitely develop. At the moment, yeah, this year we were focused more on B2B sales. That's why, yeah, we didn't have, we just don't have the resources. But if somebody of your listeners is, is an expert or, yeah, devoted in this field, we'll be super happy to, to have a chat.

Eric:
Okay, and what is one of the big goals that you have for 2024 since we're already in November this year?

Radina:
Yeah, 2024 we are looking to launch our second product, the Origami Cup. So we already have a working prototype of it and we are testing some things. So we are looking to launch it late spring, early summer next year. Again, it will be on Kickstarter because we need to co-funded it. We are also looking to do some improvements on the bottle as well. So yeah, these two like continue growing the distribution and popularity of the bottle while also launching our second product. These are like the two main important

Eric:
Okay.

Radina:
milestones

Eric:
Is it

Radina:
for

Eric:
manufactured

Radina:
me.

Eric:
in Bulgaria too, Radina, or is it manufactured

Radina:
No,

Eric:
elsewhere?

Radina:
unfortunately it's not. We were looking for factories and suppliers here in Bulgaria, but we couldn't get competitive unit production costs and the investment would have been four times bigger than currently. So we are producing it in Shenzhen, in China. A lot of companies are producing there. I'm not ashamed of this. I mean...

Eric:
Hehehehe

Radina:
Unfortunately, in Bulgaria and in general in Europe, it's difficult to start, especially for a startup with limited resources. We would love to have it here or in Europe, you know, and to save transportation costs and also emissions from transportation. But yeah, I hope in the future we can have a separate factory production facility here in Europe, especially with packaging.

Eric:
Was there a specific resource that you utilized to find a production facility in China for your product?

Radina:
Sorry, what was it?

Eric:
Was there a specific resource? Like how did you find a manufacturer

Radina:
Um,

Eric:
in China?

Radina:
yeah, well, this was also, I don't know, I was asking a lot of companies and whoever I can think of as a for a recommendation and reference for a factory in China, because it's not easy, like you, it's an ocean of factories there and you don't know who to speak with and who is reliable and trustworthy and at the same time. technically advanced so that they can create such an innovative product because it has its specialties for production definitely that's why it took us so long time so basically I was asking people from my network whoever it comes to my mind looking on my LinkedIn contacts And that's how I got referred to the factory that we are currently working on. So basically the contact came from one of the VC funds here in Bulgaria. And one of their portfolio company was producing some plastic parts for, for their electronics there. And yeah, they're super cooperative, very professional, super punctual. And a lot of, from their clients come from Bulgaria. So they are very, keen on their reputation and image. So because they know that they can get new clients by having a very good relationship with their current one. So we were lucky to find them really. And I traveled to China in the end of 2019 where I met with this factory and another one that I also got recommended. So I could compare between the two and that's how we decided to work with them.

Eric:
Okay, alright. I've got some rapid-fire questions for you. Please give me the first answer that pops into your head. Are you ready, Rodina?

Radina:
I think slow, but yeah.

Eric:
What's the most interesting thing you did in the last 26 days?

Radina:
Mountain biking

Eric:
Okay.

Radina:
in Croatia.

Eric:
Uh, your next, okay. Your next startup will be blank. Your next startup will be what? Radina.

Radina:
I'm fine with my current one. It's

Eric:
Okay.

Radina:
enough. We have a long journey.

Eric:
Okay, what is a favorite TV show that you can watch again and again?

Radina:
TV show. I love podcasts.

Eric:
Okay. Which podcast then is one of your favorites?

Radina:
RageRoll podcast.

Eric:
Retro?

Radina:
Yeah.

Eric:
Okay, I need to check that one out. I've never heard of that one.

Radina:
Oh, you have to take care.

Eric:
Yeah, what's it about?

Radina:
It's an endurance athlete, Rich Rowe, that has a pivotal life so far and he's inviting all kinds of athletes and business people and having deep conversations about different aspects of life. So there is always something interesting to know and learn and hear

Eric:
Okay.

Radina:
somebody's story.

Eric:
Okay, all right. And where can people learn more about you, Radina?

Radina:
on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, on my email radina at default.tech

Eric:
Okay. Redina, thank you so much for coming on innovators can laugh for everybody listening. I will put links to Redina's LinkedIn profile as well as the diphone website in the show notes. And, uh, let's tune in next week as we will interview another European innovator and startup founder. And if you enjoy this, feel free to tell others about it and subscribe to the show. Uh, for everyone listening, this is Eric signing off. Thank you, Redina.

Radina:
Thank you.